tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC October 8, 2013 2:00am-3:00am EDT
that's a dangerous place to be as a candidate. a lot of the races have a long ways to go. >> the closer gets tonight's last word. thank you. >> thank you. ted cruz passes out the kool-aid. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews out in san francisco. let me start tonight with this. i'm out here in san francisco on my book tour, i just came from boston. let me tell you what you already know. this country's paying attention to washington. and it doesn't like what it's seeing. the polls back that up. 70% of a new washington post/abc poll blame congress. nobody's especially thrilled by this sight.
the dangers to sabotage into what's behind all this. speaker boehner gets leaked saying one thing, goes on the record denying it now seems intent on denying the obvious. that given a chance, the house of representatives would not have the government back to work by midnight. the far scarier is the default looming ahead. just ten days from now. why are we the greatest country in the world the symbol of government headed towards disaster? why do we have so many no nothings in the congress deny the fiscal arithmetic that stares us in the face? where the bad guys fear nothing more than science and other evidence of human progress. i love democracy. even more, i love democratic politics. i love it when the two sides go at it with your ideas and philosophies and try to win the public over. but what do you call this? this dangerous zigzagging towards the abyss with boehner
being driven to the cliff while the zealots yell victory lies in catastrophe, kool-aid for everyone and defeatists will be shot. chuck todd and eugene robinson. last week both "the new york times" and "the washington post" had said he assured colleagues the government would not default. even if it meant helping pass a clean hike of the debt limit. that was his stance then. but not anymore. yesterday boehner pulled a stunning 180 on the issue of default. here he is. >> my goal here is not to have the united states default on their debt. my goal here is to have a serious conversation about those things that are driving the deficit and driving the debt up.
and the president's refusal to sit down and have a conversation about this is putting our nation at risk of default. >> are you saying if he continues to refuse to negotiate, the country is going to default? >> it's the path we're on. >> chuck, what's this zigzagging to the cliff all about? explain it analytically what boehner seems to be doing. saying one thing to the inside crowd, denying it. what's he up to? >> the problem is this is the strategy boehner wanted to pursue all along. he didn't want to tie all this to the shutdown. and this is now the box he finds himself in where the two of these issues have merged together. he's trying very hard to suddenly make the debt limit not about health care anymore. again, it's all been to me mixed together and it's put him in a bad negotiating position. so at this point, it's hard to figure out. what i am sort of dumbfounded by is the white house is
telegraphing a get out of jail free card for boehner or at least a delay here, where nobody -- where everybody can save face and everybody can claim they stuck to their guns. the president has said he wants the government reopened before he'll have negotiations and he wants a clean debt limit raise. boehner said he wants to force negotiations. well, if boehner does a clean debt limit raise and a clean opening of the government spending bill for, say, two months, for eight weeks, then he can claim he's still got that leverage and the president gets his bills signed. then there's a conversation for eight weeks. it's one of those classic cases where the solution is obvious. everybody can get out of this box they've all put themselves in, particularly the republicans, and for some reason boehner's not grabbing it. i don't get it. >> do you think it's -- and this is a hard question for someone like you to answer, but do you think it's credible they'd spend those eight weeks if they get
them actually negotiating some deal they both could buy? >> you know, i don't know. but the thing is, you might as well. why play with the economy at this point? we're already messing around with it with this shutdown. throw in another eight weeks. supercommittee didn't work. i'm skeptical. i don't think that the conservative grassroots here that's driving this will accept anything, will accept a tax reform that includes new revenue, i.e. some type of tax increase because of loopholes being closed. any of the potential deals i think boehner would love to cut and agree to, i don't think the conservative grassroots will ever accept. you should try for eight weeks to try to move things along. >> let me go back to gene. eugene, it seems there's new lingo being thrown out by the speaker. he talks about a conversation. that's not a hard demand.
>> a conversation is easy. you could argue they've been having a conversation by proxy through us, basically. and one said one thing and the other said another thing. you could construe a telephone conversation and boehner could take that as negotiations and declare victory. but he seems to be paralyzed or it seems to be unable to move because of the box he's been put in by the far right. and he can break out of that at some point, but i guess he's waiting for the right moment. >> but you don't believe -- apparently you don't believe, i hear, that is as vulnerable as he pretends to be. all this sweating and crying may not mean he's about to get booted. because there's no alternative to him as a speaker. >> exactly. who is the speaker in waiting?
eric cantor who would be next logically in line is so joined to boehner on this whole issue or suite of issues at this point that he's not really an alternative right now. plus why would he want the job at this point? then who do you got? you don't have anybody out there who's a logical speaker in waiting who would "a," be credible, and "b," want the job. >> let me go back to chuck for a second. i guess this comes down about belief, a human question. can you tell reading through this behavior and all the zigzagging and on the record and off the record and that back and forth, does john boehner insist on using his authority as speaker to set the agenda and to putting programs on the floor that he would not get to the 17th of this month. in other words, next week before passing some kind of debt ceiling to avoid a default. >> i can't -- that, i can't figure out.
i thought he would cave before midnight on september 30th. i thought there was a way out for them. he didn't take it. this is not about -- i think the one thing that we are getting wrong here is this isn't about whether boehner is saving his speakership. this is about whether the republican party is fighting for the soul of the republican party, breaks out in such a way that the conservative grassroots basically catching fire. it's not just boehner losing his speakership. it's becoming a disconnect that somehow the republican leaders aren't fighting for what the republican grassroots want. if they at all look like they're capitulating to any demand the president is making in any form, it's like the guy -- it's like they'll light themselves on fire or light the party on fire. so this is about boehner trying to protect -- trying to
basically paper over the party's larger problem that they've got going on here. >> the is the problem israel has had all these years. it's not there aren't good people on the arab side. it's the good people on the arab side don't call the shots and they're worried about the terrorists behind him. mahmoud abbas, once reasonable person and knows he has to have peace. but people like boehner, they can't deliver on the deal. i'm worried here. i'm worried we will go into cataclysm here. >> you have to believe -- boehner last week was telling republicans and then it was being leaked he's not going to let the country default. >> do you believe that? >> i think he meant that at the time. it's hard to believe that boehner wants to go down in history as the speaker of the
house who caused the massive default and economic catastrophe. it could be that facing the obligation to cave on the government shutdown and to cave on the default, he decided to stall, basically, and wrap them both together. if he's got to figure a way to cave, he'll just figure it out once rather than twice. >> let me go back to chuck on this conversation thing. how do you read that? i asked gene about it. conversation sounds soft. it sounds like all we want is a commission. all we want is some side deal, a side letter. i'll bring the troops, i'll get you the numbers. but want a reason to talk over entitlements and that sort of thing. >> you see what word he never uses is compromise. right? that's the real -- let's have a conversation, but there's no -- the question is can you come to an agreement where everybody gets 50% of what they want. and in this political environment, i don't think
that's possible on the republican side. i don't think boehner can sell 50%. >> people know where i stand, but it seems like they haven't offered anything except the survival of the nation. you can continue to survive and have health care, but everything else we're taking. >> right. no, i mean -- you know, they're saying as if the president should say we're going to default and in exchange you've got to give up health care and this. so it isn't a rational negotiation. it's not, and i think that more and more folks get that. i think speaker boehner knows this is a bridge too far. which is why he's trying to change the -- now he's talking about let's have a deficit conversation with the debt limit which should have been the demand from the very beginning. because that's actually how it's traditionally been used. not to mix it in with operations and health care. >> instead of asking for keystone and offshore oil and
federal land exploitation and everything else on their goody list that has nothing to do with reducing the debt. thank you so much. we'll be right back. by the way, ted cruz says he hasn't shut down the government. president obama has. ted cruz says the debt ceiling's the way to go. cruz says his side is winning the argument. why exactly is the gop following him off the cliff? plus, the new tv unreality show, keeping up with the republicans. how do you negotiate with a party is that is dismissive of science and refuses to accept even the legitimacy of a democratic president? also, usually it's the republicans who are united and democrats divided. but this time democrats are solidly behind president obama. and he hasn't given an inch. let me finish tonight with what i hear people saying about the government shutdown and how they want something better. this is "hardball," the place for politics.
to treat my low testosterone, my doctor and i went with axiron, the only underarm low t treatment. axiron can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18 or menith prostate or breast cancer. women, especially those who are or who may become pregnant and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied as unexpected signs of puberty in children or changes in body hair or increased acne in women may occur. report these symptoms to your doctor. tell your doctor about all medical conditions and medications. serious side effects could include increased risk of prostate cancer; worsening prostate symptoms; decreased sperm count; ankle, feet or body swelling; enlarged or painful breasts; problems breathing while sleeping; and blood clots in the legs. common side effects include skin redness or irritation where applied, increased red blood cell count, headache, diarrhea, vomiting, and increase in psa. ask your doctor about the only underarm low t treatment, axiron.
is the government shutdown isn't playing too well in virginia. the state's republican candidate for governor ken cuccinelli went out of his way to avoid even before photographed by the shut down's ring leader ted cruz. cruz and cuccinelli both attended the fund raiser for the conservative family foundation. cuccinelli didn't mention cruz in his speech and left before cruz took the stage to praise him. >> i'll tell you one thing about my friend cuccinelli. he loves liberty and the constitution more than praise from "the washington post." >> though those words might not sit too well with the government employees in virginia. much more on cruz when we return.
people are worried about politics. listen, if we worry about what is impacting the american people, the politics will take care of itself. the politicians gazing at polls, there is a reason why. the most common sentiment across this country is that politicians in washington aren't listening. there's a reason why congress has 10% to 15% approval rating. >> welcome back to "hardball." ted cruz doesn't think he's hurting the republican brand. and many republicans would beg to differ. just last week a number of his senate colleagues, republican colleagues confronted him at a closed door meeting. they wanted to know what his plan was for how republicans win the shutdown battle he started. he couldn't offer a plan. according to "the new york times," participants in that meeting described it as a lynch mob. in public cruz has read from the same script since the start of this fight. his strategy seems to be blame the other side for everything he is responsible for. in cruz's words, it's harry reid and president obama forcing the shutdown. it's the democrats who are the extremists unwilling to
compromise. and the american people are firmly behind, guess who, cruz despite polls showing huge majorities are not. who is buying cruz's lying at this point? apparently he is. joy reid and sam stein. both are msnbc contributors. let's go now to joy. your thoughts. let's try to step into the shoes and heart and brain of senator cruz. he's a newcomer. he's been in washington just about half a year. he beat the incumbent establish candidate dewhurst down there. he is where he never expected to be if he's normal. but somehow he's floating on air. but how does that overwhelm and trump and in almost every case the observable facts? he caused the shutdown. he advertised for it, achieved in getting it going, and continues to goose any republican or threaten with defeatism or treason any republican who doesn't want to
continue the fight. your thoughts, joy? >> the way that cruz gets away with it is he's speaking to a closed room. in that room are only right wing media allowed to be heard. and it's coming really from the algorithm of what jim demint started. saying we are much more at war with the gop establishment than barack obama. they've been selling us out. in our minds, they're losing on culture wars, fiscal matters. to them they see the deficit exploding at their expense. thee see all these entitlements given to minorities. they want to win and they want someone to fight for them against all odds. >> walking anger. anyway, listen carefully to how cruz talks about the fight over the shutdown. the democrats caused the shutdown, harry reid and the president are the ones that want it.
let's listen to cruz world. >> right now we need to deal with the fact a significant percentage of the government is shutdown because harry reid and president obama have refused to negotiate. >> do you feel responsible for what's been happening to people? >> look, i think it is indefensible that president obama and harry reid have forced a government shutdown. they shouldn't have shut down the government. the position of the democrats, it's remarkable. they want 100%. that's why we're facing this shut down. because their position is extreme. the democrats want government by crisis. they want shutdowns. this is harry reid's shutdown because he thinks it benefits democrats politically. and they want to threaten a default to scare people. >> this is a new mode of communication. it's whining aggressively. i've never heard a man or woman speak with so much whine in their voice. his eyebrows comes down every time he expresses himself.
he shakes his head back and forth with disappointment the way people are talking. they don't quite get it. it's like the child not getting as many cookies as their brother or sister. looking at the parent saying why did you give them more than me? this look of indignation. he's hurt. he's hurt because he didn't get to shut down obama care. he's hurt. >> for months ted cruz was leading an effort to shut down the government unless obama care was defunded. but then to turn around and say it's harry reid is bizarre. it's worth repeating many times over, i think, that even if they were to pass a clean spending bill, it would fund the government at sequestration levels which would cripple president obama and send democrats out. that's hardly a 100% my way or the highway approach for democrats.
in fact, i've talked to many democrats who bemoan the fact that the president agreed to do this. so yes, he can talk as if this was all harry reid's fault, but it's just not true. the fact of the matter just aren't there to support what he's saying. >> you can see it in the pictures there. the pictures we're watching on the left side of the screen, we have a split screen up here. you see a guy good at mixing it up. when he's on tv with people like candy crowley, it's all defensive. woe is me. you see him on the stump, the fingers are out pointing. it's like pat buchanan. he's giving instructions and leading on the army. the minute he's in the studio with an objective questioner, it's woe is me. doesn't anybody see this crap? or not? i don't know. i see it. >> it's absolute rope-a-dope. on the political side, his whole theory, his whole theory of the case is built on a lie. he is lying to the base of his
party and promising them he can deliver the end of the affordable care act. which he should know. to build on that to keep people behind him, he's continuing to tell more lies which is this is really the democrats. they're making me do this. i'm not a bad guy. i don't want to shut the government down, they do. it's this perfect pivot he's doing between the mainstream media where he wants to be a presidential candidate. and his base that wants to be a fighter and wrestling obama to the mat. >> it's a combination of rush limbaugh's sort of woe is me, the guy out there selling all these nazis coming at him. he's always under attack, this poor guy. and demint's right wingism, it is a mix. he sells like jim demint who quit the senate to go sell harder. then the moral indignation. it is an aggressive whine. >> but joy was right to point out there was a vacuum he
filled. and that vacuum was for someone within the republican party to launch shots at fellow republicans. and so it's not surprising that they're mad at him in these private meetings. he's aiding a campaign to target them with radio and television ads in their home state. he recognized very early on there was a general disappointment among the general base about what the elected officials had done. and he tapped into that. the problem he's facing now is that there are limitations within the confines of government to what he can do with that anger. he's got to figure out a way out of this. >> he's so difficult to follow in the trail here to keep track of him. because he says he's against politics. there he was in virginia this weekend building his support base around the country. as we all know, it's a swing state. what is he doing in virginia if he's not running for president, joy? last question. >> first of all, he's running for president in virginia. yo because
he, too, is trying to do a balancing act. >> one thing he'll be looking for a job that's going to give him a big job. you round up the guys who just lost an election. it's smart politics. cuccinelli will be on the cruz train. you watch. and that's what he's recruiting. guys that are angry who may have lost and are desperate to get a job in the next administration. thank you, joy reid. just watch this guy. sam stein. up next, president obama weighs into the other debate in washington. and this is "hardball," the place for politics.
but at least i can help keep their underwear clean. that's why there's charmin ultra strong. i'll take that. go get 'em, buddy! it cleans so well and you can use up to four times less than the leading bargain brand. [ female announcer ] charmin ultra strong has a duraclean texture that's soft and more durable to help your kids get clean while still using less. and it's four times stronger than the leading bargain brand. wow, you cleaned up a lot! you did too, pal! [ laughs ] [ female announcer ] used by more plumbers than any other brand, charmin is now clog-free or it's free. big plans. so when i found out medicare doesn't pay all my medical expenses, i looked at my options.
then i got a medicare supplement insurance plan. [ male announcer ] if you're eligible for medicare, you may know it only covers about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. call now and find out about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement insurance plans, it helps pick up some of what medicare doesn't pay. and could save you in out-of-pocket medical costs. to me, relationships matter. i've been with my doctor for 12 years. now i know i'll be able to stick with him. [ male announcer ] with these types of plans, you'll be able to visit any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. plus, there are no networks, and virtually no referrals needed. so don't wait. call now and request this free decision guide to help you better understand medicare... and which aarp medicare supplement plan might be best for you.
there's a wide range to choose from. we love to travel -- and there's so much more to see. so we found a plan that can travel with us. anywhere in the country. [ male announcer ] join the millions of people who have already enrolled in the only medicare supplement insurance plans endorsed by aarp, an organization serving the needs of people 50 and over for generations. remember, all medicare supplement insurance plans help cover what medicare doesn't pay. and could save you in out-of-pocket medical costs. call now to request your free decision guide. and learn more about the kinds of plans that will be here for you now -- and down the road. i have a lifetime of experience. so i know how important that is.
winners and losers. loser, john boehner. i feel sorry for you, buddy. it's exhausting watching you try to maintain dignity while wrangling the tea partiers. >> loser, the obama care website. it had too much web traffic. you can't campaign on the fact that millions don't have health care and then be surprised that millions don't have health care. how could you not be ready? that's like 1-800-flowers being caught off guard by valentine's day. >> time now for the sideshow. that was "snl" weekend update on an eventful week in washington. butset meyers wasn't the only one feeling bad for john boehner. here was bill maher on friday night. >> poor john boehner. poor john boehner. he is in the middle of this republican party civil war. there is a war now going on in
the republican party, between the old school republicans and the tea party. and the tea party is running the show. the republican party is like the corpse in "weekend at bernie's." and the tea party is like the two guys who put sunglasses and a party hat on it and drag it around. >> and many on twitter were surprised to find the popular game show "family feud" seemed to be getting in on the action with some harsh words for boehner. quote, speaker boehner stop letting extremists sabotage your economy. end the tea party shutdown now. don't let ted cruz run the u.s. as it turned out, the show says its account was hacked. and the tweet has been taken down. next up, he may have his hands full, but that didn't stop president obama to weigh in on a longtime washington debate. the name over the washington redskins.
for years, many have said it's ethnic stereotyping. while the team defenders say it's a test to the courage of the american indians. here's what the president had to say to the associated press. >> if i were the owner of the team and i knew that there was a name of my team and if it had a storied history that was offending a sizable group of people, i'd think about changing it. native americans feel pretty strongly about it. and i don't know whether our attachment to a particular name should override the real legitimate concerns that people have about these things. >> in response, redskins lawyer lanny davis came out to rebut the president citing an institute poll showing that nine out of ten native americans were not bothered by the name. up next, the reality denying republicans. they make up their own facts,
just over a week from now >> i think it's irresponsible of the president and his men to even talk about default. there's no reason for us to default. we bring in $250 billion in taxes every month. our interest payment is $20 billion. tell me why we would ever default? this is a game. it's like closing the world war ii memorial. they all get out on tv and say we're going to default. >> wow. and this morning wall street veteran treasury secretary steve ratner shut that down.
>> the idea we could somehow go over this ceiling and pay interest in our debt, not pay other things including social security and medicare and all kinds of other stuff and still have an intact credit rating, a functioning set of financial markets and say that's no big deal, that is crazy. >> not to be outdone, ted yoho, you know what party he's in, he says default might be a good thing for the economy. i think we need to have that moment where we realize we're going broke. i think personally it would bring stability to the world market since they would be assured that the united states had moved decisively to curb its debt. take a moment for that to sink in. he is saying a default would stabilize world markets. here's jack lew on the subject he knows something about. >> for people to say we want to know the last minute to act, we want to know the last dollar, even getting close to the line is dangerous. we saw in 2011 there was no default in 2011. it hurt the economy to get close
to the line. we saw it in the stock market. we saw it in confidence. we saw it in investment. if we cross the line, we're going to a place we've never gone. it's very dangerous. >> republicans may be entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts. wayne slater is reporter for the dallas morning news and richard wolffe is vice president and executive editor of msnbc.com. i want to start with this about fact denial. and this -- we had it on the show with king, the congressman from iowa, who basically said i don't know anything about international economics. i don't talk to international economists. don't know about american economists. i know what i'm talking about when it comes to national debt because quote, i raised a family. this horse sense is saying why don't you fix your own tv, your plumbing. because there are people that know how to do things better than we do. and economists have a better bet of figuring out the implications of a default than some joker
that said i raised a family. everybody's raised a family. very few of us understand international markets. >> chris, even if you have raised a family, you know you cannot sort of leave your gas bill to one side and then say i'm just going to pay the electricity bill this month and it's going to be okay. the point is all of these things get reported. even if you were just thinking running the world's largest economy, being the reserve currency was just like running your household budget. this doesn't work for a household budget. and more than that -- and it's not as important, but it is important if you are a conservative, if you're a republican and you think this is a winning strategy for you. what message does it send to go out and say we really believe this president doesn't understand about deficits. we do. but we don't understand anything about default. it doesn't make any sense. even in their own terms. if you're not an expert, don't talk about debt and deficits and go back to whatever you want to do. >> this is a gamble, you could argue, for the right someone like ted cruz.
and after all the shouting we're back in a situation three days before next week that somewhere around the 14th which is seven days from now, they do reach some sane conclusion of this scary thing. and he gets credit for having pushed them along the way, but not so dangerously as to have killed the economy. at what point does he begin to worry? does he ever worry, this guy with the strange look of moral indignation? >> i've been around him a lot, i don't think he worries very much. i think he clearly thinks there's going to be something happen that suggests they win. there's something charlie sheen-esque saying we're winning when it doesn't appear they are. on the other hand, what we have here is a situation where people like cruz, cruz and company say they can win. so long as there is fundamentally some deal, something happens, the debt ceiling is raised, that
republicans get something. it's not good enough, but it's enough to drive the constituents who would vote for them in the future and fire them up. i mean, i've said this before. this is sort of a breaking bad model where you have mr. white who for five seasons never said anything that was true. but in the process, he made a lot of blue meth for some people and he built a bank roll that benefitted him, at least his family in the end. that's what cruz hopes. >> he's playing for time. i've studied joe mccarthy and his tactics. not to say these guys are the same although there was an overlap in the hagel hearings. what mccarthy used to do was announce in the morning i'm going to name names. then the afternoon newspaper would say mccarthy to name names. then he would say i've got in my hand a list of names who are communists. never had to release the names. he was constantly promising he
would deliver something and he kept the ball rolling to the point the whole country was terrified of him. it seemed at any moment he might name you. and in fact, he never did really except in the horrible cases of the public servants. but not the politicians. >> i normally think mccarthy comparisons are kind of overdone, but this is politics by terrorizing people. you know, they're trying to say default is a really big thing, we're all going broke, but it's no big thing right now because it's not real. and constantly this whip saw that they're playing here is very real. look at the markets today. you cannot be -- i hate to come back to this, but you cannot be the world's reserve currency and play these games. so just pick up your wall street journal, financial times, economist, and see what the rest of the world and the financial people are saying about this. and it's as bad people saying you're undermining our democracy. undermining the world economy is a really serious proposition and it goes way beyond whatever ted
cruz thinks he's doing for 2016. >> i'm wondering at what point between now and the 17th mr. cruz realizes he's pulled the pin on the grenade. >> i think he won't change anything at that point. but it's up to other more responsible republicans and obviously democrats to do something about it. i mean, we're playing a game here. yeah, it is a game, but they're different games. and if, in fact, your game is about building a constituency or constituents around you that are good in the end, then fine. you talk to rick perry here in texas, and he said even though we have millions of people uninsured, nobody's uninsured here. that's false. in the campaign with ted cruz running for senate, he said the u.n. is going to come in and take over your golf course. that's not what happened. but for the group of people who believe that, who are predisposed to believe that and a politician is willing to
deliver it, those are people down the line who will be your folks. meanwhile, our larger government is playing with the real game and playing with fire. >> texas, where john cornyn is the reasonable man. anyway, thank you for joining us wayne slater. what a state. not to knock the people, but election processes. richard wolffe, thank you. up next, the big reason president obama is standing his ground. that's the big interesting thing. the democrats he united. not democrats in disarray. democrats together. this is unique. and also, it's the place for politics. need a spoon, dear? not anymore.
just vote. let every member of congress vote their conscience. they can determine whether or not they want to shut the government down. >> we're back. that was a confident president obama today at fema headquarters in washington. as we enter week two of the government shutdown, we're watching an emboldened president obama. the president stuck to his guns and refused to yield any wiggle room to the republicans over the affordable care act. and one reason the president's so confident, democrats in congress are united behind him right now. on saturday the house democratic leadership released a letter with 195 members of the caucus who say they would support a clean continuing resolution. representative jim moran and representative jim mcdermott. congressman moran, do you think if boehner the speaker of the house has the power to do it calls up a vote on a clean cr to get the government back to work
tonight. would it pass? >> absolutely. i've talked to two or three dozen republicans who have indicated that they would vote for it. i'm confident that it would vote pretty decisively if the speaker would just let a clean continuing resolution come to the floor of the house. president obama's right on this. unfortunately, speaker boehner has reversed himself. i don't know why. probably out of pressure. but he is incorrect when he said sunday it wouldn't pass. it would pass. there is no question about it in my mind. >> mr. mcdermott, what is this about? we all watch the guy. remind me of a jack lemmon character. nervous business guy. does something wrong. he looks like hell. why does he worry -- if it is 30, 40 members in the caucus, the wild guys why does he worry so much. why doesn't he say, i will go with the majority. i need the majority not the crazies.
why doesn't he do it that way? >> play it out. suppose he called for a clean vote. put it out there, 30 republicans, 195 democrats went for it. it passed. he is afraid the next action in his caucus will be to remove him from speaker. now, think about it. here is a guy that is now a hero for the american people. he has put our country back together. it is working, the government is working. and their next act is going to cut off his head as speaker. no, that is not going off to happen. he need to have the nerve and the guts to stand up to those 30 guys, 40, whatever it is. say, "look, you won't help me. i am going next door and getting the votes because i care about my country." that's what john boehner has to do. if he did that, he would have nothing to worry about. >> let me ask you, jim moran, congressman, who is on his life line, the chief of staff? who does he trust? cantor, or mccarthy, who is
spooking him. next he would hear from the chief of staff, cantor. who is scaring him. telling him "everything you guys are saying is wrong?" >> chris, i don't think it is in his office or in the caucus. i think outside money and outside media. it's the rush limbaughs of the world, fox news, it's the koch brothers, all the three dozen organizations that were talked about on the front page of "the new york times" yesterday. i think it's-- the money and it's the media. and so, i think he feels constrained with a very tight parameters of what they instruct him to do. >> are you and your colleagues. almost 100. are you confident the president has the winning hand here? at what point will it get hot
for the democrats as well as the republicans as you approach ten days from now the shutdown, not shutdown, the debt default? >> i think we do because i think the president is right. you can't bargain the debt limit increase. you could say, let's raise it a little bit. or for a week. or two. that's going to throw the world economy into chaos. the president cannot do that. i don't think he will do it. i think if he sticks to his guns. ultimately, the wall street boys are going to come down and say, look, john, you want to play golf with us, you better take that out on the floor and get it clean. >> this -- chuck todd was talking about it. the press is hearing about a two month proposal. i don't think anything would be accomplished in two months. couldn't be accomplished right now. your thoughts, mr. mcdermott. >> a mistake to go for a short one. you ought to raise it so you can get through the next six months
or next year. it doesn't -- we are going to raise the debt limit. we have raised it 111 times. since clinton was president of the united states. and we're going to raise it again and again and again. and you might as well just admit it. and do it. it's -- it's silly -- and very, very bad for the country. not to go ahead and do it. >> mr. moran, you represent the district across the potomac from the white house. every day when you walk around old town alexandria, what's the mood in terms of the shutdown? >> they're distraught, chris. these are people who want to be working. fortunately we were able to get, our bill passed saturday, to pay them. make a compelling case. if we are going to pay them. they should be working for their way. and contractors, more contractors and federal employees that are out of work. this is going to take a big bite
out of our economy. billions of dollars. it will be all over the country. the american people, business community, they need stability. they need confidence, regained in their government. that we know what we are doing. so this funding for a very short period of time, let alone, lifting the debt ceiling for a very short period of time. completely agree with jim mcdermott. that doesn't work, you, we have got to resolve this. resolve it from, for some extended period of time. >> i am so glad to hear you gentlemen say that. the strong, smart position. thank you, congressman jim moran, jim mcdermott, state of washington. we'll be right back after this. angie's list saves me a lot of time. after reading all the reviews i know i'm making the right choice. online or on the phone, we help you hire right the first time. with honest reviews on over 720 local services. keeping up with these two is more than a full time job, and i don't have time for unreliable companies. angie's list definitely saves me time and money.
>> let me finish tonight with this. as i said up front, i am in san francisco on my book tour. willie brown the mayor held a party for me last night. secretary of state george schultz, get-together, kathleen the queen, and family and friends. and a big party for tip and the gipper when politics work fried day night in boston. everyone talked in both places how much they missed the time when politicians left and right could find a bottom line agreement on their fights. they didn't have to go on forever and risk the country any faith and credit. everyone has shown a nostalgia for when politics worked but was actually, dare i say tight day, fun. tonight i take the cause to the commonwealth club, tomorrow,